Moose Population is Thinning
According to Steve DuBois from the Department of Fish and Game here in Delta he said that 114 moose have been harvested so far.
900 drawing permits have been issued for the hunt, which is open through Nov 15. The permits have been issued in the hopes of thinning out the moose population and to prevent over-browsing in certain areas.
For the rest of the story click here.
900 drawing permits have been issued for the hunt, which is open through Nov 15. The permits have been issued in the hopes of thinning out the moose population and to prevent over-browsing in certain areas.
For the rest of the story click here.
posted by Delta News Web at 10/11/2007 08:54:00 AM
21 Comments:
i hope they're taking into account the calves that won't be born next spring due to the cow harvest? and any possible calves that will die because their mother has been killed?
What is wrong with this picture? Fish and Game first waives the $25 fee for Grizzly in 20D then they establish 20D as a predator control area due to the shrinking Moose population. Then they turn right around and allow 900 cows to be harvested. Is senility settling in? They should all be fired and a new board elected immediatly. They call this management but I call it stupidity!
Well it sounds like some folks should attend the fish and game meetings. Delta is being managed as an intensive use area. That means they are trying to provide the most moose possible for human consumption. The moose population has reached a very high density now and the growth needs to be slowed down. The forage is still very good for them but if the herd is left to grow unchecked eventually the moose will starve and we will have a real mess on our hands. I believe that Fish and Game is doing a very good job despite all the contraversy of shooting cows. It is a very good way to manage the population and provide oportunities for people to fill their freezers. So what if they don't have antlers. I know there are allot of folks who don't like this cow hunt but I can't understand how they don't get the science behind it. Too many moose and we loose it all. Manage the herd and we have lots of moose for ever!!!! Read and believe people. CT
the moose will not starve. they migrate. did anyone ever wonder about WHEN F&G did their counts? in the winter. because it's harder to do in the summer. for obvious reasons. at any rate, in the winter, the moose from the gerstle river area migrate away from there and gee, i wonder where they go? yep! THAT'S why the count is so high. does anyone recall the cow hunt they did in the 70s? destroyed the moose population in this area. and they gave the same reasons. if they wanted to do this in a RIGHT way, they would tag certain moose, and see exactly where they are in the winter, spring, and fall. do that for a few years. then make a decision. i would bet that their whole "the moose will starve because of over-population" excuse would be blown out of the water.
isn't it a bit of a coincidence that a few of the people on the board USE hunters as a means for income? something about "guided hunting"? hmm.....
I have been hunting this area for 15 years. There has been a very steady decline in legal bulls in this area. If Fish and Game thinks harvesting cows is a good decision, then fine. They then need to take the next step and step up patrols and start check points, such as MP 1408, 12 Mile Crossing and Coal Mine Rd. This will keep the bull population healthy and prevent the poaching/taking sublegal bulls to restore previous levels. This type of enforcement visibility will force hunters to know the regulations and distinguish what is legal and what is not.
How do you figure the moose migrate? The entire area is counted and I know there are moose in the Gerstle area all winter, lots of them. They don't go far. I know people, including myself, that are in this area all winter and have begun to notice the browse is getting a little bit over used. They are having to feed on bigger stuff every year. They have all the numbers for ALL the area counts. There might have been a problem with the hunt back in the 70's but this hunt is very well thought out and is not going to damage our herd. My money is on fish and game this time. As for the number of legal bulls, I think the number of legal bulls taken has stayed about the same. There are more people after the same amount of moose though. I agree whole heartedly about having check stations around here. I would bet if there were check stations that the number of illegal bulls would go way down. I am positive there are lots taken without being caught. To bad we can't all be willing to play by the rules. Great chat going here!
I have lived in Delta for 10 yrs. part of that time out Cummings rd. There are moose out there all year.Bulls and cows etc.
What I have a problem with is the fish and game "biologist" argument that the area is overbrowsed.During the regular hunting season I was all over the country here and I don't see any evidence of overbrowsing anywhere and I'm not the only one. Many people I talked to that were in places I was not said the same thing.Some said from there observations there were to few bulls not to many cows. I don't know the details but apparently this was tried up on the Taylor some years ago and resulted in no moose hunting at all.It is possible that for every cow there is also a calf.So if there are 900 permits potentially 1800 moose are being killed.This does not make sense at all.
I was not at the advisory committee meetings but I understand from some that were that the number of permits was to be 20.How did it get to be 900???
It may not be over browsed yet but allot of the browse is getting too big for them to eat. The whole idea is to prevent the moose from over populating. The counts and evrything that went on have come up with a density number per square mile and it is higher than it should be. We could leave them alone and find out just how many is too many but when that happens it is too late to fix it, they are headed down hill. As for killing 2 moose for every one shot, how do you figure? It is only one moose, true there won't be a calf from her but if you shoot a bull that may have bred 5 cows did you kill 6 moose? The population needs to be controlled and according to the biologist from Fairbanks that is studying this we could take more than we are and still not affect the population much. We aren't going to decimate the herd and hopefully we can keep this hunt going and have a sustainable harvest like this for a long time. Keep an open mind people. These guys know what they are doing!!!!
Just like they knew what they were doing back in the 70s....it took till now to recover from that massacre. Talk to people who were here back then. And NOT the F&G board. And of COURSE their numbers were right on! Never mind the fact that they brought up a biologist from, what, Alabama or something? who knows nothing of this state, migration herds, and probably much about moose in general. And yes, of course there are still moose in the Gerstle River area during winter. But there are a heck of a lot more in the summer. And even if they were over-browsing and did starve...more food for the wolves and bears! Why does the human have to step in where mother nature does just fine? Fact of the matter is, there was no reason to release permits for 900 (make that 1800) cow moose because of "over-population". I'd really like to see where they had the count THAT high. And not on paper. Papers lie. Eyes don't.
the biologist was not from fairbanks. at least, not the one they had sent up from the states.....and yes, they do know what they're doing. which is why many are opposed to it!
Dollars to donuts that everyone would react differently if we treated human over-population in this manner.....and yes, it is a fair comparison. We all do our fair share to make this world work. And I'm sure there are a few humans out there that this world could do without.
"Fish and Game first waives the $25 fee for Grizzly in 20D then they establish 20D as a predator control area due to the shrinking Moose population. Then they turn right around and allow 900 cows to be harvested. Is senility settling in? They should all be fired and a new board elected immediatly. They call this management but I call it stupidity!"
This comment says it all. When I phoned Fish & Game earlier regarding this hunt,the individual denied the predator control and the $25 fee waiver. He stated he had been hunting in Alaska for 40 years and whoever told me that was a liar. Additionally, he told me moose are a nusiance animal, getting in people's gardens and eating up their hay fields. In essence. The moose are rodents and need to be eradicted. I agree. New Fish and Game Board - new Fish and Game.
Additionally, let us have SCIENTIFIC study. As a hunter here for 25 years I have seen no evidence of overbrowsing, nor masses of starved, dying moose. NO official scientific study has been done. We are just operating off a F & G individual from Fairbanks who is mimicing Germany's hunting laws.
Just as a funny....one of the biggest pushers for the cow hunt on the F&G board has "no hunting" signs posted all over his property. Those signs did not appear till the cow hunt started. Sure, maybe he doesn't want people hunting on his property. I wouldn't, either. But you can't have it both ways.....
Well said anon. at 6:12!
Probably this is over but one more comment. There is a missunderstanding here about overbrowsing. It isn't over browsed YET. We have close to 6 moose per square mile now. The optimal capacity is around 3. It isn't overbrowsed yet but at this population density it won't take too long and then what do we do? Start trying to feed them. They aren't dying from starvation YET. That is why we are trying to keep the herd from getting too big and have them die off. Once they reach the point that the are starving it is too late. There isn't enough feed to keep them alive and guess what, we are back to a 3 day season or none at all while we wait 25 years for the herd to build back up like it is now. I wasn't here in the 70's but I wish that there was some info on what happened, not just hearsay. Did they all get shot because fish and game wasn't doing their job or was it a because the herd had reach the point of no return and the combination of over browsing and bad winters plus a liberal season? I just have a sneaking suspition that maybe the reason was that fish and game may have waited too long to open the cow season to reduce the numbers till the population was already on the downhill slide. That is what they are trying to avoid now. This thing is almost as bad as having a borrow isn't it. I am betting that this will work!!! Hope I'm right cause those cows eat good.
the reason people are so irrate is because there is no scientific data involved in this. only hearsay. and numbers taken from aerial view during once season: winter. maybe if they would've done it right (which would be tagging a few moose to track any migration patterns, doing an aerial view count over a 2-4 year span....) we would be behind them. but they're way off on their numbers (sorry, i don't see THAT many moose when i'm out and baout!) and as an avid hunter in this area, i see (along w/ many family members and friends who hunt as well) no evidence of even a possibility that over-browsing is in the near-future. and if this IS such a good idea, then why does F&G board people get all snippy and tense when you ask them, politely, about the science behind this? because there is none. if you were here in the 70s, you'd probably understand. but this is exaclt what they did back then and, again, there was no science then either! it took till now to build up that moose population. and now we'll have to wait another 30 years for the hunting to get back to where it should be.....i would just like to know what on earth is going through their heads when they did this....and for those who think the moose don't migrate: there are at least 20 moose that occupy cummings field all winter long. where do they go in the summer? and the ones in souhrada's fields? mccolums? geise's? i seriously doubt they are just out hiding in the bushes....
I know for a fact that the moose count has been going on for years. Like 6-10. I have talked to the pilot for years and they have been counting the same areas at the same times to get their population estimates. There is allot of science behind this. As for the game board, they were very reluctant to open this hunt. They could have opened it last year, they put out a few, but didn't because they wanted more data. The fish and game meeting last winter on this had LOTS of science behind it. There are several factors that have been studied to indicate that we are reaching a high population density. The twinning rate is one and the browse consumption is another. According to their scientific studies our twining rates are low and I haven't seen the browse usage study yet but they were doing that last spring. I understand it appears like the moose come from nowhere in the winter but they are changing food sources. Would you rather eat frozen sticks or green grass? Those moose are around there in the summer but don't feed on hay then, the browse is good. You don't see rabbits in the summer along the roads like you do in the spring when the roads green up first? I'm not trying to create a fight here but there is science behind this. I wish we could get the biologist to do an article in the paper and explain what was brought up at the planning meeting. Would that help. Maybe we should get more involved when they come down to present their findings. The info was all put out last spring. The game board made a desicion based on the info from the biologists and their science. They aren't just pulling this out of there hats. All the science is there, can you believe it???
How can they count moose in the summer? You can't see them with the brush greened up. If they are doing the counts the same time and in the same places every year then they should be a good estimate on numbers. Doesn't matter if they migrate if they count the same areas at the same time cause it is the same moose evry year. If they counted in the summer one year and winter the next it would foul up the count if they did move. I am sure they move some cause I know the bulls come down during rut and move back up during winter and they do come out in the fields where you don't see them in summer. I just can't understand why nobody believes fish and game. Do you think they are out to wipe out our hunting or what. I know for sure that I wouldn't want Steve's job. What a thankless job. If this cow hunt bombs he is hated. If they overpopulate and starve he is hated. What do you do?
They have been watching this real close for a long time to come to a desicion like this and it's not just one guy. There were several at the meeting, all with very good data on this area. Even if they are wrong they aren't going to wipe them out in one year. If the numbers don't look good there is every oportunity to close it next year. It isn't permanent. It's an adjustment. Lets give it a chance guys.
Maybe if F&G would not be snippy when people ask then (nicely, I might add) and don't give answers like "None of your business" the community would be more friendly and open to them. BTW, that was an actual answer from one of the board members. And word of mouth isn't proof of anything. The public wants actual numbers on paper, actual recordings. If F&G provided THAT, then maybe the community would be a little more nice. But we don't have that, and they are extremely rude when questioned.
Well I think we agree now. There are printed numbers from the counts that show the actual herd growth and the biologists from Fairbanks gad some real good info on the browse study and twining rates, I saw it all. I wonder if we could get a nice article in the paper that explanes all this. I agree the public would maybe understand better if all the info was put out in a mass media type thing. I am kinda with you on the board members, I only know a couple but the fish and game guys have always been cooperative, maybe they are tired of getting blasted by people that don't really want to know the facts but are going by what they feel or think???? I may take it and see if I could get an article in the paper??? who knows it may work. I just would like to encourage everyone to go to the meetings though. There weren't very many local folks there. I guess thats why I am tryoing hard to put out some stuff I took from the meeting. Wish me luck.
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